Kaytwo - Interview with a cultural terrorist.

"I MEAN WHEN YOU START HAVING A CLIENT BASE THAT DIRECTS YOU TO WHAT THEY WANT, INSTEAD OF WANT WHAT YOU DO, THEN IT MAKES IT EVEN EASIER FOR SOME ARTISTS TO FORGET ABOUT POLITICS, AND VOICING YOUR ANGER."



Earlier we posted a review on some of Kaytwo's highly impressive art.
This interview gives the reader a more in depth understanding, not only of the person behind the nic, but also the graffiti scene it self.
Kaytwo ALLWAYS writes in caps, for his own personal reasons.
Enjoy the informal, yet interesting and at times philosophical, conversation below.


Q: You work in a variety of mediums, and you've stated that you had an epiphany once you discovered wild style graffiti. Why did wild style have such an impact on you?

A: WELL ACTUALLY I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE MOVIE CALLED "WILDSTYLE". DOING GRAFFITI BEFORE THAT, WELL, IT WAS QUITE DIFFERENT. FOR ONE, WE DIDN'T HAVE SUBWAY TRAINS HERE IN CALIFORNIA. WE DIDN'T HAVE CREWS TO GO OUT WITH OR REPRESENT US IN NUMBERS. AND THE WHOLE THEORY OF YOUR ART TRAVELING FROM ONE PART OF THE CITY TO THE OTHER, WOW, THAT BLEW ME AWAY. OUR MEANS OF "GETTING UP" WAS LIMITED TO WALLS. EVERY ONCE IN WHILE WE WOULD HIT TRAILERS FROM THE DIESEL TRUCKS THAT WOULD PARK DOWN THE STREET FROM US. THAT TO US, WAS LIKE HITTING A SUBWAY CAR. THE FIRST TIME I WATCHED IT (WILDSTYLE), IT WAS AT THE LOCAL VIDEO STORE. I RENTED IT, AND DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HIP HOP OR THE CULTURE. I HAD HEARD SOME RAP MUSIC ON THE RADIO, HAD JUST STARTED TO SEE BREAK DANCING (POPPING AND LOCKING WAS ALL READY A THING) IN OUR PART OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND DIDNT PUT IT TOGETHER UNTIL I RENTED IT A 2ND TIME A FEW MONTHS LATER. THEN IT ALL CAME TOGETHER. THEORY, SUB CULTURE, AND MOVEMENT.
"LEE QUIONES" WHO PLAYED THE MAIN CHARACTER IN THE MOVIE (ZORO), I REALLY CONNECTED WITH HIM. I'VE NEVER HAD A CHANCE TO MEET HIM, OR THE DIRECTOR, CHARLIE AHEARN, BUT WOULD LOVE TO ONE DAY JUST TO SAY THANXXX!
I WOULD HAVE TO SAY MY STYLE OF MY LETTERS, AND FORMING A CREW, BREAKING, AND DJING TRANSFORMED ME AFTER I UNDERSTOOD IT. BEFORE THAT I WAS PAINTING MY NAME, WHICH BACK THEN WAS "COSMIC -T-". THIS WAS 1983-1984. I LATER CHANGED THE SPELLING TO "KOZMIC -T-", TO MAKE IT MORE HIP HOPISH. THAT LASTED A FEW YEARS, THEN IT WENT TO "KAYTWO". BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY.



Q:You have been part of the underground for quite some time, tell us what keeps this scene alive and your personal involvement with it. And what does the underground give you back?

A: WELL I THINK ONE THING THAT KEEPS THE UNDERGROUND ALIVE IS THE YEARNING FOR SOMETHING NEW, DIFFERENT, UNSEEN AND FULL OF CREATIVE ENERGY, WEATHER IT'S NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE. FOR THE MOST PART IT'S BECAUSE OF THE YOUTH THAT BRINGS THIS OUT. I HAVE BEEN THERE FOR THE MOST PART OF EVERY UNDERGROUND SUB CULTURE THAT HAS STARTED SINCE THE EARLY 80'S. FROM HIP HOP TO PUNK, INDUSTRIAL, EXPERIMENTAL, NOISE, GOTH, THRASH, METAL, DEATH METAL, TRIP HOP, THE WHOLE TECHNO/HOUSE THING. I HAVE HAD AN ATTRACTION TO BEING INVOLVED BECAUSE OF THE ENERGY AND TECHNOLOGY THAT MAKE IT POSSIBLE, AND IS PUT INTO IT. I MEAN HOW OFTEN DO YOU SEE A NEW THING BEING STARTED BY SENIOR CITIZENS AND ROCKS? I THINK WE HAVE COME TO A POINT WHERE THINGS ARE GOING TO BE RECYCLED, COMBINED SUBCULTURES. IT HAS ALL READY STARTED. I THINK IN A FEW YEARS THERE MIGHT BE SOMETHING WORTHY OF BEING INVOLVED IN. BUT AT THE MOMENT, I THINK EVERYTHING HAS HAD THERE TURN, AND NOW IT'S JUST LEFT TO BE REDISCOVERED BY THE YOUTH WHO WEREN'T AROUND FOR THE MOST PART OF THESE SUBCULTURES. COMBINING OTHER THINGS THAT HAVE ALL READY BEEN DONE TO FORM A NEW THING THAT THE YOUTH OF TOMORROW CAN RELATE TO.
MOST OF MY INVOLVEMENT IN A MAJORITY OF THE UNDERGROUND HAS BEEN DOING ART FOR THE BANDS OR VENUES. I WAS REALLY INVOLVED IN DOING VISUALS AND LIGHTS FOR THE RAVE SCENE BACK IN THE EARLY 90'S. IN THE 2000'S I RAN AN UNDERGROUND GALLERY CALLED "ARTSF" WITH A FRIEND OF MINE FOR 5 YEARS AND CATERED TO UNDERGROUND ARTISTS, PERFORMERS, LOCAL DANCERS, AND HOSTED A NOISE/EXPERIMENTAL BILL CALLED "GODWAFFLE NOISY PANCAKES" THAT WAS CURATED BY THE MAIN GUY FROM "CAROLINER RAINBOW". I DID A LOT FOR THE SF UNDERGROUND COMMUNITY IN THE EARLY 2000'S. I HAD PUT MY ART TO THE SIDE JUST TO FOCUS ON RUNNING THE ART SPACE. IT TOOK A LOT OUT ME!! MIND YOU I WAS GOING THROUGH A MAJOR INJURY ALSO. UNTIL SOME ONE RUNS THERE OWN SPACE, THEN YOU'LL KNOW HOW MUCH IT IS TO DEAL WITH. PLUS IT WAS 4000 SQUARE FEET! TOO MUCH SPACE, BUT STILL NOT ENOUGH.
ONE THING I GET BACK FROM THE UNDERGROUND IS THE JOY OF DISCOVERING NEW THINGS. THE SATISFACTION KNOWING YOUR ONE OF THE EXCLUSIVE FEW TO EXPERIENCE THIS FOR THE FIRST TIME, OR DEPENDING ON MY INVOLVEMENT, TO KNOW THAT YOUR ASSISTING AN ARTIST/PERFORMER/ OR BAND IN GETTING THEIR FEET WET IN THE SCENE. GIVING THEM THAT CONFIDENCE THAT THEY ARE WORTH DOING WHAT THEY FEEL THEY NEED TO DO WITH THEIR MIND, HEART AND SPIRIT. THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE I RUN INTO ON THE STREETS OF SAN FRANCISCO AND THEY ALWAYS THANK ME FOR WHAT I DID. SOME PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TO MY SHOWS, AND DIDN'T KNOW I WAS THE GUY WHO RAN THE PLACE UNTIL I TELL THEM, WILL GET DOWN ON THERE KNEES AND PRAISE ME. I HATE THAT. BUT I DO KNOW HOW THANKFUL THEY ARE TO HAVE EXPERIENCED SOMETHING NEW AND DIFFERENT TO WHAT THEY ARE NORMALLY USED TO.

Q: : To me the industrial culture and house has very much in common with the graffiti culture.
Such as creating something that is not commercially owned by the capitalists. There is certainly a common anarchic attitude. Is this something you agree with? Do you see them in relation to each other?

A: A: YES, I CAN DEFINITELY SAY I AGREE WITH THE COMMON SIMILARITIES WITHIN THOSE SUB CULTURES AND GRAFFITI, AND ALSO WITH THE PUNK SEEN. THE DIY ATTITUDE OF EXPRESSION AND PRODUCTION ON YOUR OWN TERMS, WITH YOUR OWN IDEAS, AND GETTING IT ACROSS BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. WITHIN THE INDUSTRIAL AND PUNK SEEN, ONE COMMON THING THAT REPEATS ITSELF, HAND IN HAND WITH GRAFFITI, IS THE POLITICAL STAND POINTS OF ONES ANGER AND BELIEF WITHIN THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT OR RULING SYSTEMS. GETTING INTO PUNK AS A YOUNGSTER DEFINITELY GOT ME INTERESTED IN THE POLITICAL WORKINGS OF AMERICA. AND ALSO HELPED ME INVESTIGATE ALL THE CORRUPTION AND DOWN PLAY THAT HAPPENS. IT REALLY MADE ME GET INTO EXPRESSING MY ANGER AND MY BLINDNESS TO THE "SYSTEM".
WITH THE GOVERNMENT OWNING ALMOST ALL OF THE MEDIA NOW, IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO GET ANY REAL "TRUTH" IN ANY TELEVISED NEWS OR PRINTED MAGAZINE/NEWSPAPER STORY NOW A DAYS. I THINK GRAFFITI AND CERTAIN FORMS OF MUSIC WILL BE THE MEDIA OF THE FUTURE, AND WILL ASSIST IN THE FIGHT AGAINST THE CAPITALISTS, COMMUNISTS, THE CORPORATE OWNED GOVERNMENT, AND ALL THE HIDDEN AGENDAS THAT WE AS HUMANS, WILL HAVE TO BELONG TO, OR BE A PART OF, OR WE WILL BE CONSIDERED TERRORISTS IF WE DON'T CONFORM. AND WHEN I MENTION GRAFFITI AS THE FUTURE OF MEDIA, I MEAN ALL FORMS OF GRAFFITI. STENCILS, WHEAT PASTING, MURALS WITH MESSAGES, AND EVEN THE RANDOM SCRAWLING ON CITY SURFACES. THOSE WILL BE THE ONLY MEANS OF INFORMING THE PUBLIC OF THE SLAVE SYSTEM THEY ARE A PART OF, OF WILL BECOME A PART OF. I HAVE TO ADMIT, IT WILL BE A LOT MORE CHALLENGING IN THE FUTURE TO DO SUCH A THING. WITH CAMERA PHONES, CAMERAS ON EVERY STREET CORNER, STORE PARKING LOTS, CAMERAS, CAMERAS, CAMERAS!!! AND WITH THE NEW DAMN IPHONE, ANY PHOTO THAT YOU TAKE HAS GPS COORDINATES (IN THE META DATA) ON WHERE AND WHAT TIME THE PHOTO WAS TAKEN. SO ANY GRAFFITI HEAD THAT GETS PULLED OVER BY THE MILITARY TRAINED LAW ENFORCEMENT CAN USE YOU PHONE FOR EVIDENCE, AND GO TO THE EXACT PLACE WHERE THE CRIME WAS DONE. THEY STILL HAVE TO PROVE YOU DID IT, BUT POINT BEING IS IT'S BEING TRACKED TO FURTHER ASSIST IN FUTURE CRIME.


Q: I know some old school graffiti artists see ,say stencil street art, as catering to the mainstream audience, instead of actually being a counter culture. Do you think street art, as in stencils and alike, has the same rebellious and anti government attitude as graffiti and tagging?

A: IT USED TO HAVE MORE OF A REBELLIOUS, ANTI AUTHORITY ATTITUDE, AS FAR WHAT THE SUBJECT MATTER PERTAINS TO. IN SOME CITIES IT STILL DOES. THE SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA IS KNOWN AROUND THE WORLD FOR BEING A VERY POLITICALLY CHARGED AREA FOR PEOPLE TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT, AND STAND UP FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN. IT STILL IS, BUT BECAUSE OF THE "QUALITY OF LIFE" SHIT, THE HIPSTERS AND YUPPIES HAVE BEEN CAMPAIGNING ABOUT, AND SOME OF THE LAWS BEING PASSED, LIKE IT BEING CALLED A "TERRORIST ACT" (DEPENDING ON YOUR MESSAGE) INSTEAD OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH, IT MAKES IT DIFFICULT FOR PEOPLE TO REALLY SAY WHAT THEY WANT TO.
I THINK THE TRANSITION FROM ART SCHOOL KIDS TRYING TO DO STREET ART, IN MODERN TIMES, HAS DESTROYED THE ANARCHISTIC MESSAGES THAT SHOULD NOT BE BETRAYED. IT'S HARD TO BE EDUCATED IN GOVERNMENT AND POLITICS WHEN MOMMY AND DADDY ARE PAYING YOUR RENT, TUITION, AND CREDIT CARD. THE WORLD IS SO BEAUTIFUL AND CAREFREE, THEY HAVE NO WORRIES, THEY FLIP ON THE MTV AND TRY TO LIVE LIKE THEM. OVER POPULATION IS DESTROYING ART! SO MANY KNOCK OFFS COPYING ART, TRYING TO MAKE IT THEIR OWN, AND IT NOT BEING ORIGINAL. FUCK, I AM SO SICK OF SEEING THAT SHIT!
OFF THE SUBJECT, I ALSO HATE PEOPLE WHO COLLECT SHIT OFF THE STREET OR FROM 2ND HAND STORES AND PUT THE OBJECTS INTO BOXES, IN AN ARTSY, ORGANIZED MANNER. WHEN IN GALLERIES, I JUST WANT TO RIP THAT SHIT OFF THE WALL AND BURN IT WHILE WATCHING THE ARTIST NOT KNOWING WHAT THE HELL IS HAPPENING. IF SO MANY PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW ME IN THE GALLERY SCENE, I WOULD DO IT AT LEAST TWICE A NIGHT!
WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF COMPUTERS, IT MAKES IT SO EASY TO MAKE A PRETTY LOOKING STENCIL. PEOPLE WANT TO DO MORE OF THE ARTSY STUFF WITH NO MESSAGE. WHICH I THINK SOME OF IT COMES OUT REALLY GOOD. BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A SOCIETY WHO NOW LOOKS AT STREET ART AS "MODERN ART", AND GRAFFITI BEING THE HIP THING TO HAVE IN YOUR HOUSE, YOUR GALLERY, YOUR TV COMMERCIALS, MOVIES, MUSIC VIDEOS, GRAPHIC DESIGN, T-SHIRTS AND FASHION, IT MAKES IT VERY EASY TO LOSE THE "FUCK WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN" ATTITUDE. I MEAN WHEN YOU START HAVING A CLIENT BASE THAT DIRECTS YOU TO WHAT THEY WANT, INSTEAD OF WANT WHAT YOU DO, THEN IT MAKES IT EVEN EASIER FOR SOME ARTISTS TO FORGET ABOUT POLITICS, AND VOICING YOUR ANGER. INSTEAD THEY ARE THINKING OF PAY CHECKS AND DOING SOMETHING THAT SELLS TO THE CORPORATE FUCKS. CASH IN ON IT, WHEN YOU NEED IT. BUT DON'T ALTER YOUR SOUL, AND ARTISTIC INTENT OF WHAT COMES FROM YOUR HEART. I THINK MOST OF THE ARTISTS TODAY, JUST LIKE THE MUSIC SCENE, IS SOME OF THE MOST SHIT PRODUCING TIMES. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, MOTHER FUCKING SHIT PRODUCING!!! VERY RARELY AM I IMPRESSED WITH WHAT IS BEING PRODUCED TODAY.
I THINK IT WILL TURN AROUND THOUGH. WITH THE WORLD BEING SO POLITICALLY SCREWED, AND GETTING WORSE, AND THE SHEEP FINALLY WAKING UP TO ALL THE BULLSHIT PLANS OF THE FUTURE OF HUMANITY, AND THE CENSORING THAT ALL THE MEDIA DOES, I THINK STENCIL ART WILL START TO COME BACK AROUND WITH THE MESSAGES OF ANGER AND FRUSTRATION. WELL, AT LEAST I HOPE SO. I AM PRETTY WELL ON IT WHEN IT COMES TO PREDICTIONS. AFTER I WATCHED "12 MONKEYS" QUITE A FEW YEARS AGO, I IMMEDIATELY RECOGNIZED THE CAMPAIGN THEY WERE DOING AS THE FUTURE OF MEDIA. NO TV, NO RADIO, NO NEWSPAPER WILL ALLOW THE TRUTH TO BE TOLD. IT WILL BE UP TO THE PEOPLE OF THE STREETS, AND LOWER/MIDDLE CLASS SOCIETY TO BRING THE MESSAGE TO THE FORE FRONT. I WILL BE ONE OF THEM. I HAD MADE AN OBAMA HITLER STENCIL, AND WAS SO CLOSE TO GOING OUT PUTTING IT UP LAST YEAR, BUT BECAUSE OF SOME FAMILY ISSUES, I COULDN'T RISK GETTING A "TERRORIST" CHARGE. EVEN THOUGH IT SHOULD ONLY BE A VANDALISM CHARGE. BUT, I WAS HAPPY TO SEE THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAD THE SAME IDEA AS ME, BUT DIDNT STENCIL IT. INSTEAD THEY HAD MADE A PHOTOSHOP GRAPHIC. AND I HAVE BEEN SEEING MORE AND MORE OF THEM. WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!


Q: What would you say to those people who see graffiti, tagging and street art in general as vandalism, and can you direct us to blogs on underground art and graffiti in general?

A:WELL, FIRST OF ALL I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE WITH THEM IF IT IS DONE WITH OUT PERMISSION. TECHNICALLY IT IS VANDALISM. I THINK IF THE PERSON ISN'T VERY EDUCATED IN THE CULTURE OF THE ARTS, MEANING ALL FORMS OF THE ARTS, THEN IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE MORE DIFFICULT TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT IS ART, AND WHAT THE MEANING OF MARKINGS IN THE STREETS REALLY MEANS, AND WHY ITS DONE BY MOST. A MAJORITY OF PEOPLE I HAVE TRIED EXPLAINING THIS TO, JUST DON'T GET IT. SOME ON THE OTHER HAND LOVE IT, AND CAN'T GET ENOUGH OF THE COLORS THAT BRIGHTEN UP THEIR CONCRETE PRISONS.
ONE THING I TRY TO TELL THE MISINFORMED IS CALLIGRAPHY IS AN ART FORM. IT HAS BEEN FOR MANY OF HUNDREDS, IF NOT THOUSANDS OF YEARS. ALL DOCUMENTATION OF HUMAN CULTURE, AS WE KNOW IT, IS IN A WRITTEN LANGUAGE, WHETHER THROUGH PICTURES, SYMBOLS, OR LETTER FORM, AND HAS BEEN WRITTEN BY SOME TYPE OF HAND. OUR MODERN WAY OF COMMUNICATING TO A CERTAIN CULTURE THAT LIVES BY THE STREETS, IS DONE BY THE MEANS OF GRAFFITI. SURE, IT'S NOT THE MOST PLEASANT THING TO SEE, BUT IT'S ONLY IF YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT. ONCE YOU ARE ABLE TO "DECIPHER" THE WRITING, THEN YOU BECOME A PART OF THIS "SECRET SOCIETY". I START TO POINT OUT LETTERS AND SYMBOLS TO THEM, AND THEY GET HAPPY WHEN THEY CAN SEE IT. THEN THEY TRY TO READ OTHER STUFF AND ARE SO AMAZED WHEN THEY CAN READ IT WITHOUT ME HAVING TO POINT OUT ANYTHING. ONCE THEY PASS THAT PART OF THE CONVERSATION, THEN I EXPLAIN TO THEM THE ACT OF "GETTING UP". LETTING PEOPLE KNOW YOU WERE THERE! I THEN BRING FORWARD A SECOND PART TO THE LOGISTICS OF GRAFFITI, AND INTRODUCE THE THEORY OF ANIMALS MARKING THEIR TERRITORY TO LET OTHERS KNOW, "THIS IS MY SHIT! I WAS HERE, SMELL IT"! IT'S THE MOST PRIMITIVE FORM OF GRAFFITI, AND ANIMALS CREATED IT! MOST OF THE TIME THE UNEDUCATED CRACK UP WHEN I TELL THEM THAT ONE. BUT FOR SOME REASON THEY UNDERSTAND THE THEORY, AND HAVE A PRIMORDIAL GRASP ON THE ART FORM. THEIR DAYS OF ANGER END, AND THEY HAVE NOW BECOME PART OF THE ILLUMINATED.

THE BEST SITE TO CHECK OUT GRAFFITI ART FROM AROUND THE WORLD IS A GOOD FRIEND MINE WHO HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR A LONG, LONG TIME IN THE CYBER WORLD. I RECOMMEND IT TO EVERYONE!!!

ARTCRIMES

We would like to thank Kaytwo for his time!